Wednesday, January 28, 2015

Argentine born players capped by other national team

Brazil-born Jose Altafini with Antonio Angelillo and Omar Sivori

Please also see my All-Time World Cup Team Index.

Argentinan Greatest All-Time Team
German-Born players capped by other national teams
French-born players capped by other national Teams
Brazilian-Born players capped by other national team 
English-born players capped by other national teams
What if Ronaldo and Messi played for Australia in 2006
Provincia de Córdoba,
Provincia de Santa  Fe, 
Provincia de Buenos Aires 
The City of Buenos Aires

Argentina produced many football talents.   Some of them ended up playing for other national teams. This is my all-time 23 member team for Argentine capped by other national teams.  Some players were born in Argentina and went aboard to play as a foreign player, but others were born in a foreign country of Argentinian background.  In the old days, players were allowed to switch national teams.  Players such as Omar Sivori. Alfredi Di Stefano, etc had played for other countries.  

GK: Ramón Quiroga (Peru)
Born in Argentina, Ramón Quiroga went to the World Cup Finals in 1978 and 1982, playing for Peru.  He is remembered for conceding 6 goals against his birth country Argentina, and Argentina advanced to the World Cup Final ahead of Brazil due to goal difference. The match was one of the most controversial in the history of the World Cup Finals. He began his career playing for the Argentine club Rosario Central before playing in Peru.
Ramón Quiroga 
GK: Carlos Trucco (Bolivia)
Born in Argentina, Carlos Truce played for a number of clubs in Argentina before moving to play for Destroyers, Oriente Petrolero and Boliva in Bolivia.  He also played in Colombia and Mexico.  He had 51 caps for Bolivia.  He started playing for Bolivian national team in 1989 and was their starting goalkeeper at the 1994 World Cup Finals in the USA, Bolivia's first ever World Cup Finals since 1950.

Born in Argentina, he represented the Peruvian national team and made his debut for the national team on 18 April 1998. Since then he obtained 50 caps, with the last match being on 30 March 2005. He has been one of the four to have played at least 500 games in the Peruvian First Division. He played the most matches with Universitario de Deportes and Cienciano.

RB/RW: Juan Carlos Tourino (Spain)
Touriño was born on 14 July 1944 in the Parque Patricios district of Buenos Aires to immigrant Spanish parents who had fled the Spanish Civil War.  He started his career with Quilmes in Argentina.  He went on to make over 100 appearances for the club. He moved to Real Madrid in 1971.  He won three La Liga titles between 1971 and 1976. He was capped by Spain once in a match against Hungary in 1972.

CB/DM/RB: Luis Cristaldo (Bolivia)

Born in Argentina, Luis Cristaldo  moved to Bolivia at the age of 15.  He played for Oriente Petrolero and Boliva in Bolivia before moving to play in Spain for Sporting de Gijon in 1998.  He also played in Argentina and Paraguay. His longest career were at Bolivar and the Strongest in Bolivia. For the national team, he was capped 93 times.  He went to the 1994 World Cup Finals in the USA.  He is Bolivia's national team record cap holder alongside Marco Sandy with 93 caps.

CB: Fernando Ochoazpur (Bolivia)
Fernando Ochoaizpur was born in Argentina.  In 1990, he began his professional career with Estudiantes de La Plata. In 1993, he moved to play in Bolivia. He had played for various clubs in Bolivia, Argentina, Peru, Mexico and Ecuador.  From 1996 to 1999, he earned 6 caps for Bolivia. He was a member of their Copa America team in 1999.

CB: Gabriel Paletta (Italy)

Paletta helped Argentina to win the U-20 World Cup in 2005 before switching to play for Italy in the senior level.  At the time of writing, he earned 4 caps and went to Brazil 2014. He started his career with Banfield.  He went to Europe to play for Liverpool, Parma, AC Milan and Atalanta.  He also had a stint with Boca Juniors. At the time of writing, he plays for Jiangsu Suning F.C. in China.
Gabriel Paletta 
CB: Gustavo Quinteros (Bolivia)
Gustavo Quinteros spent his career playing for different clubs in Argentina and Bolivia.  His clubs as a player include The Strongest and San José in Bolivia. He also played for San Lorenzo de Almagro, Argentinos Juniors and Talleres de Remedios de Escalada in his native Argentina.He was capped 26 times for Bolivia and went to USA 1994.

LB: Mariano Pernia (Spain)
Pernia played for San Lorenzo and Indpendiente in Argentina before moving to Spain in 2003.  He first played for Recreative de Huelva, but it was in Getafe that he made his name.  In 2006, he moved to Atletico Madrid.  He first called up for Spain right before the World Cup Finals in 2006.  He would start three game in Germany.  He earned 11 caps for Spain in total. 

LB/RB: Ricardo Ismael Rojas (Paraguay)

As a youth product of Argentinos Juniors, Rojas started his club career in Paraguay before moving back to Argentina to play for Estudiantes de La Plata, River Plate and Belgrano.  He also played two seasons with Benfica.  At River Plate, he scored a famous goal against Boca Junior.  He was capped 7 times by Paraguay and went to play in the 1998 World Cup Finals.

DM: Luis Monti (Italy)

Luis Monti led Argentina to the WC Final in 1930 where they lost to Uruguay.  Four years later, he became an Oriundo and won the World Cup with Italy.  He was also remembered for getting injured at the Battle of Highbury in 1934. He started his career in 1921 with Huracán. The following year he signed with Boca Juniors but left without playing a game. He joined San Lorenzo. In 1930, he joined Juventus in Italy, where he played until 1939.
Luis Monti
AM: Miguel Montuori (Italy)
Widely regarded as one of Fiorentina's greatest players.  He started his career in Chile with Universidad Catolica before moving to Italy in 1956. He helped Fiorentina to win the league in 1956. He eared 12 caps for Italy.  Despite his talent and success, he was also regarded as an "unfortunate" player, due to his many runner-up medals, and his injuries, which forced him to retire during the prime of his career.

AM: Matias Fernandez (Chile)
Matias Fernandez started with Colo-Colo.  While there, he was named the South American Footballer of the Year award in 2006. Later, he played for Villarreal, Sporting CP, Fiorentina, AC Milan and Necaxa.  Since 2005, he had played over 70 times for Chile.  He played in the 2010 World Cup Finals, and was a part of the team that won the 2015 Copa America.

RM/RW: Mauro Camoranesi (Italy)
Mauro Camoranesi started his career with a tiny club named Aldosivi before moving to Mexico.  From 1996 to 2000, he played for 4 clubs in three different countries.  At Cruz Azul, he scored 20 goals and earned a move to Verona in Italy.  He stayed there for 2 seasons and moved to Juventus, where he reached stardom.  He earned his first cap for Italy in 2003.  From 2003 and 2010, he earned 55 caps.  He played a major part as Italy won the World Cup in 2006.
Mauro Camoransi

FW/LW: Raimundo Orsi (Italy)
Orsi was considered one of the greatest forwards in Argentina's history.  He started his career with Indpendiente in Argentina before lured away to play for Juventus. he won 5 league titles with Juventus.  Later in his career, he would play in Brazil and Chile.  He was capped by Argentina 12 times winning a silver medal at the 1928 Olympics.  He switched to play for Italy in 1929.  He was a star player as Italy won the WC in 1934.

SS/FW:  Omar Sivori (Italy)
Omar Sivori is remembered one of the greatest ever player from Argentina. He won the Ballon d'Or in 1961. After Argentina won the Copa America in 1957, he joined Juventus where he enjoyed 8 successful years.  He was credited with the resurgence of the club.  With John Charles and Giampiero Boniperti, he formed "the Magical Trio" with the club.  In Argentina, he played for River Plate.  After Juventus, he joined Napoli.
Omar Sivori 
ST: Julio Libonatti (Italy) 
Libonatti started with Newell's Old Boys in 1917.  He was listed the first ever trans-Atlantic transfer when he moved to play for Torino in 1926.  He is still the second highest scorer in the club's history.  Internationally, Libonatti won the 1921 South American Championship with Argentina. He later represented Italy and won the 1927–30 Central European International Cup. He played 15 times for Argentina and another 17 times for Italy.

ST: Atilio García (Uruguay)
García had short spells with Club Atlético Moreno, Club Atlético Platense and Boca Juniors in Argentina before joining Nacional in 1938. He is the top goal scorer in the history of Uruguayan football with 465 goals scored in official tournaments and the second highest goal scorer in the history of the Uruguayan Football Championship. Born as an Argentine, he played for Uruguay. He scored 5 goals in 6 games for Uruguay.

CM/AM/FW: Alfredo Di Stefano (Colombia/Spain)
The best player in the world before the emerge of Pele and Maradona. He was one of the younger member of the great River Plate in the 1940's.  In 1949, he moved to play in Colombia before moving to Europe in 1953.  He won 5 straight European Cups with Real Madrid. He was credited in turning Real Madrid into a legendary club. His international career was limited to the fact that Argentina did not select overseas players.  He played for Argentina, Colombia and Spain.
Alfredo Di Stefano
ST: Humberto Maschio (Italy)
With Omar Sivori and Antonio Angelillo, Maschio earned the nickname "Angels with Dirty faces" collectively as a group. In 1957, he moved to Italy to play for Bologna after Argentina won the 1957 Copa America.  However, it was in Atalanta where he became a star and earned a bigger move to Inter Milan.  For Argentina, he scored 12 goals in 12 games.  Later he played twice for Italy.

ST: Hector Rial (Spain)
Rial was known for his career with Real Madrid between 1954 and 1961. He was part of the team that won five consecutive European Cups, playing alongside Alfredo Di Stefano. He played professional football in Argentina, Colombia, Uruguay, Spain, France and Chile. Born in Argentina, he became a naturalized citizen of Spain.  He was capped 5 times by Spain.

ST: Enrique Guaita (Italy)

Enrique Guaita played for Estudiantes de la Plate before moving to AS Roma .  He was the top-scorer of the League in 1934–35, with 28 goals.  In 1936, he returned to  Argentina to play for Racing Club because he feared that he would be drafted into the army.  He was capped 4 times for Argentina.  While in Italy, he was capped 10 times for Italy.  He won the World Cup in 1934 with them, where he scored a goal in the semi-final.

CF: Antonio Angelillo (Italy)

Antonio Angelillo was a member of the "Angeles With Dirty Faces". He moved in 1957 to Italy after Argentina won the Copa America in 1957.  He scored 31 goals in 31 matches for Inter Milan in the 1958-59 season, the second highest record at the time.  He was considered to be one of Inter Milan's greatest players.  He also had a successful career with Roma an another stint with Genoa, Lecce and AC Milan.  He earned 2 caps for Italy.

Honorable Mention
Attillio Demaria (Italy),  Gabriel Arias (Chile), Rinaldo Martino (Italy), Alejandro Scopelli (Italy),  Roberto Acuna (Paraguay),  Francisco Lojacono (Italy), Emilio Badini (Italy), Eduardo Ricagni (Italy), Bruno Pesaola (Italy), Dani Osvaldo (Italy), Jose Eulogio Garate (Spain),  Rubén Cano (Spain), Óscar Valdez (Spain), Emilio Sagi Liñán (Spain), Juan Carlos Heredia (Spain), Roberto Juan Martínez (Spain), Eduardo Arbide (Spain), Juan Errazquin Tomás (Spain), Juan Antonio Pizzi (Spain),  Franco Vázquez (Italy), Nestor Combin (France), Guillermo Franco (Mexico), Carlos Alberto Raffo (Ecuador), Marcelo Elizaga (Ecuador), Rogelio Funes Mori (Mexico), Pablo Mastroeni (USA), Néstor Ortigoza (Paraguay), Gustavo Matosas (Uruguay), Walter Ardone (Australia), Pablo Cardozo (Australia), Oscar Crino (Australia), Jorge Amado Nunes (Paraguay), Lucas Barrios (Paraguay), Nestor Ortigoza (Paraguay), Jonathan Santana (Paraguay), Rodolfo Gnavi (Australia), Gabriel Mendez (Australia), Adolpho Milman" Russo"(Brazil)* see below for explanation.

Squad Explanation 
-- My original blog team included Argentine footballers born overseas who played for other national teams.  In September, 2019, I changed to a blog team of Argentine-born players only.  
-- Most players I selected moved to their adoptive country for "football reasons".  What do I meant by "football reasons'? The players came to those countries as professional footballers.  They were in that country for football only.  For example, Kevin Kuranyi (Brazil) moved to Germany for reasons other than football.  He would still be living in Germany if he was a baker, a lawyer, a teacher, etc.  He is not in Germany for football reasons.  I tried to select players who went to those countries for "football reasons".
-- I am including players who have played for Argentina and switched to play for another team.  
-- The term oriundo (pronounced [oˈrjundo]; Italian plural oriundi) is an Italian and Spanish noun describing an immigrant of native ancestry.  Italy is known for selecting a large number of oriundo footballers throughout history. On this team, I have Omar Sivori,  Raimundo Orsi, Enrique Guaita, Luis Monti,  Julio Libonatti, Miguel Montuori, Mauro Camoranesi and Antonio Angelillo.
-- It is estimated that up to 25 million Argentines have some degree of Italian ancestry (62.5% of the total population), making a large player pool for Italy. It is not unusual for Argentine to play for Italy.
-- I tried to create an all-time team for Italian oriundo footballers, but I cannot find a single goalkeeper.
-- This blog included four players who won the World Cup for a different country.  Raimundo Orsi, Enrique Guaita and Luis Monti won the World Cup in 1934 with Italy.  Mauro Camoranesi won a World Cup in 2006.  David Trezeguet won his in 1998, but he is not on this team. 
-- Before I created this team, I thought Brazilian footballers capped by other national team would be a better team.  Simply, more modern Brazilians have been naturalised.  However, this team had Alfredo Di Stefano, Luis Monti and Omar Sivori, but the defense was suspected.  My "Brazil" at least had Pepe and Donato.
-- Antonio Angelillo, Omar Sivori and Alfredo Di Stefano could have been the starting attack for Argentina at the WC Finals in 1958.
-- Ramón Quiroga (Peru) was unfortunately remembered for the controversial game against Argentina in the 1978 World Cup Finals.  In reality, he was a good goalkeeper, but that game happened to define his career by the collective memories of fans outside of Peru or South America.  Carlos Trucco was capped 51 times during one of Bolivia's best period in football.  He also had played in the bigger tournaments such as the World Cup Finals.
-- In 2019, I added Fernando Muslera to the team.  Oscar Ibanez (Peru) was sent to the honorable mention.  But in 2023, I dropped him again during the review.  Muslera was born in Argentina of Uruguayan parents.  He grew up in Montevideo, Uruguay.  He was an Uruguayan. He was not a naturalised footballer.  I reinstated Oscar Ibanez.  I took him because he appeared many times in Copa America.
-- Marcelo Elizaga was the alternative goalkeeper.  
-- Gabriel Arias qualified for Chile because of the "grandparent" rule.  He did become a Chilean because of football reasons.  So he was eligible.
-- Most if not all of the original Argentine-born oriundo capped by Italy were attackers.   This team was very unbalanced.   The attackers consisted of the likes of Alfredo Di Stafano and Omar Sivori while the defenders had Fernando Ochoazpur who only played 6 times for Bolivia.
-- Three of the defenders played for Bolivia roughly around the same time alongside goalkeeper Carlos Trucco.
-- Juan Carlos Tourino was eligible although his parents were from Spain because he went back to Spain for "football reasons".  He started with Quilmes before joining Real Madrid.  Later in life, he became involved in the Argentine Players Union (Futbolistas Argentinos Agremiados) holding a number of different roles within the organisation including secretary general.  He played as a midfielder but was mainly a rightback.  Luis Cristaldo joined the framed Tahuichi Aguilera Academy, which made him very "Bolivian".  However, I did not have any other choices for rightback so I took him.  He was the most capped Bolivian player ever.
Luis Cristaldo 
-- Both Mariano Pernia (Spain) and  Ricardo Ismael Rojas (Paraguay) played in some big international tournaments.
-- I only had two candidates for the central defender position.  Gabriel Paletta at least played in a World Cup match.  The others were unknown to me before this research.  Gustavo Quinteros attended the 1994 World Cup Finals.
-- Ramiro and Rogelio Funes Mori were twin brothers from Argentina who moved to the United States in 2001 at age 9. They were reported to be undocumented immigrants and were ineligible for the United States. Both brothers represented Argentina after playing for River Plate.  Rogelio only capped once during a match in Superclásico de las Américas. He switched to represent Mexico in 2019 after spending a club career with C.F Monterrey.  Ramiro was ineligible to make the switch as he had played in official matches for Argentina, and I also don't know his citizenship status.
--  I considered Luis Monti one of the greatest defensive midfielders ever played the game.  He was a star with Argentina before switching to Italy.  He led with Argentina to the 1930 World Cup Final, where he was one of the top players of the tournament.  Four years later, he won the World Cup with Italy.  Monti along with Raimundo Orsi and Enrique Guaita were on the 1934 World Cup Team of the tournament. Despite winning a World Cup with Italy, he was not on my all-time team for Italy I tried not to select "oriundo" for that team.  Instead, I selected him for my Argentina All-Time team.
-- Néstor Ortigoza was born in Argentina of a Paraguayan father.  He was one of the few deep midfielders eligible for this team.  Pablo Mastroeni came to the United States as a 4 years old for non-football reasons.  He played over 60 times for the USA.  He went to the 2002 and 2006 World Cup Finals.  Both was seriously considered.
-- Gustavo Matosas (Uruguay) was born in Argentina while his father Roberto Matosas an Uruguayan footballer was playing in Argentina.  So Gustavo is an Uruguayan capped by Uruguay.  Furthermore, he was a journeyman in club football..
-- Alfredo Di Stefano might need to drop back and help the midfield. He was an all-round player who could easily drop back.
-- There are not many good midfielders.  So I took Matias Fernandez who won the South American Footballer of the Year in 2006.  Injuries had limited his career.   His father was from Chile, but he was born in Argentina.  Claudio Reyna was born in the United States. 
-- Mauro Camoransi and Raimundo Orsi were obvious choices for winger.  Omar Sivori could also play wide.  He won the Ballon d'Or in 1961.  In my opinion, he and José Manuel Moreno were right behind Diego Maradona, Alfredo Di Stefano and Lionel Messi as the 4th or 5th greatest ever Argentine player. 
Raimundo Orsi 
-- Some source claimed that Enrique Guaita was born in Brazil, making him the first Brazilian-born player to have won the World Cup. He was one of the first Argentine-born to have won the World Cup in 1934 with Italy alongside Luis Monti and Raimundo Orsi.
-- Omar Sivori, Antonio Angelillo and Humberto Maschio earned the nickname "Angels with Dirty faces".
-- Atilio García (Uruguay) is also the top scorer in the history of the "clasicos" between Nacional and Peñarol, with 35 goals. He played for Club Nacional de Football between 1938 and 1951.  
-- The last spot was very difficult.  I was seriously considering Hector Rial and Jose Eulogio Garate, but there were already many forwards and strikers on the team.  The team needed more midfielders.  Then, I looked at following midfielders: Pablo Mastroeni (USA), Néstor Ortigoza (Paraguay) and Gustavo Matosas (Uruguay).
-- In the end, I decided to select Hector Rial.  I just cannot select a lesser midfielder over a legend of Real Madrid. Because of his association with Alfredo Di Stefano,  he is probably the best known footballers left on the list. Except Garate, the other three did not play as high of a level as Rial.
-- Hector Rial was known for his career with Real Madrid playing alongside Alfredo Di Stefano.  Jose Eulogio Garate (Spain) is one of greatest players ever played for Atletico Madrid.  Jose Eulogio Garate (Spain) is the most famous player not selected.-- And then, there is the strange case of Russo "Adolpho Milman".  He played once for Brazil in 1942. He was a naturalised Brazil of Ukrainian Jewish background via Argentina, but his birthplace is a question mark.  Some source claimed that he was born in Afghanistan, which was then a part of Russia.  He later settled down in Entre Ríos, Argentina. He refused to discuss his birthplace, but his children said that he was born in Argentina. As of 2018, he was one of five foreign born footballers to have represent Brazil.
-- And I also thought deep about David Trezguet.  David Trezguet was born in France, not Argentine. He was born there when his father Jorge Trezguet was playing in the French league.  David also grew up in Argentina.  Both Jorge and David Trezeguet are ethnic French, but they are Argentine through and through.  Does he belong to this team?  Strictly speaking, this blog is about Argentine-born player who had capped for other national team and David Trezeguet is not born in Argentina.  He is not much different from Claudio Reyna (USA) whose father was Argentine.  In the end, I dropped him.

Starting lineup
--  The defense was weak.  Palette got to start because he had established himself in Europe while the other defenders never played successfully at that level.

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